HugeassCity, Op/Ed, Opinion

What Would Vancouver Do?

By Dan Bertolet, Tuesday, March 2, 2010 at 3:14 PM
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During the Winter Olympics, the city of Vancouver, BC, conducted an urban transportation experiment with remarkable results. Car travel in downtown dropped by 30 percent, while transit ridership rose to more than twice normal levels.

All it took was lane and bridge closures and new parking restrictions, combined with expanded transit service and public outreach to encourage transit use.

Inspired by this success, Vancouver City Councilor Geoff Meggs has proposed that two of the City’s viaducts should be taken down and replaced with smaller surface streets. As quoted in the Vancouver Sun, Meggs said,

“If you said a few years we were going to close the viaducts, people would have said that would paralyse the city … we’ve seen it, experienced it now, so people know what we’re talking about.”

Yes, ”paralyse the city.”  That’s a phrase that should be familiar to anyone who’s been following Seattle’s Alaskan Way Viaduct replacement debate and the proposed Surface/Transit/I-5 option (S/T/5). Even though the city’s transportation consultant provided a detailed plan for how it would work, and even though the plan was signed off on by the city, county, and state departments of transportation, and even though there are multiple examples of how traffic patterns adjust and are accommodated when freeways are removed, the myth that S/T/5 would cause gridlock persists.

Vancouver—often cited as one the most sustainable and livable cities in North America—has been working on a long-term strategy to reduce car dependence, and they are making progress. As the graph below illustrates, the number of vehicle trips dropped by seven percent over ten years. During that same period, trips by all modes grew by 23 percent.

In recent years, the model of balanced transportation that Vancouver is embracing has begun to penetrate policy at the state level. For example, Gov. Chris Gregoire’s Executive Order 09-05 directs the state transportation department to:

“…develop and adopt regional transportation plans that will, when implemented, provide people with additional transportation alternatives and choices, reduce greenhouse gases and achieve the statutory benchmarks to reduce annual per capita vehicle miles traveled…”

But on the biggest transportation decisions, our actions are not reflecting these goals. The state’s current proposals for the deep-bore tunnel, the 520 bridge, and the Columbia River Crossing are all in direct conflict with making progress towards reducing vehicle miles traveled. What would Vancouver do?

  • Wells
    Seattle and Vancouver BC don't compare very well in terms of sprawl. Vancouver acted decades ago to restrict sprawl, and that laid the groundwork to implement functional, regional transit. Vancouver BC compares better with Portland in terms of restricting sprawl. Portland plans to develop its 'less-sprawling' suburbs in a way that reduces cross-county travel. It's too late for Seattle to restrict sprawl the way Vancouver BC and Portland have done, but the model Seattle may find more applicable for directing growth is Portland, not Vancouver.

    Portland's MAX system is expanding to reach suburban cities. Fort Vancouver Washington would reduce its commute to Portland, (about 80,000 vehicles weekdays), and provide an alternative travel mode to Portland with a MAX extension. The same outcome many expect with MAX extensions in all directions. Portland's surburban cities have developed to a lesser degree than Seattle, but have still allowed auto traffic to completely and sickeningly dominate. Redeveloping such suburban cities is necessary and inevitable. If Seattle tries to emulate Vancouver by concentrating development inner-city, it will leave poorly developed suburbs in their current dysfunctional state with its intractable cross-county commuting.
  • SIW105
    Are they taking in account that Canadian Gas prices started going up during this period? and pay rates had not kept up with inflation? The Fact that a massive influx of people from China moved into this city, that have never drove a car in their lives, and forced property values up, in which people need to make major cuts to their expenses. These are only a few of the issues that faced this city during that time period.
    So, I am just wondering is this a graph that shows accuracy, or one that is posted by someone who stood outside and counted cars?
    I do not think Vancouver government did anything to affect this number, I believe it was external circumstances.
    Just thoughts,
  • [relocated comment]
  • Drive-By-Trucker_(Soapboxin')
    Sigh. I think half of Seattle would ultimately be happier w/the surface option and half w/a tunnel. I personally love driving on the AWV, but would be happy to live w/the surface option. Or the tunnel. What I want, more than anything, is for us to make a decision, act on it, and then live with it.
    -
    As much as I love Seattle, this interminable whining, arguing, and sniping is dreadful. No decision can make everyone happy. Not making a decision just draws out the agony.
    -
    Last minute power struggles end up being nothing more than obstruction. They won't change the outcome.
    -
    Here's my bold prediction (I'm talking to you, Wells): No matter what gets done, I will not live the rest of my life in shame and regret for allowing the wrong decision to be made. I'll figure out the quickest way to get where I need to go, and I'll go.
  • vlado
    Dan: You really need to stop cherry picking data that supports your ideological perspective, you are discrediting yourself as a reporter. Having spent a good portion of my life in Canada I can tell you that Canadians are pragmatists - this silly war between cars and transit we are having in Seattle wouldn't happen there. The big difference is that Canadians have been building lots of infrastructure for both. We aren't building enough of either.

    Case in point: in 2009 two major transportation projects were completed: the 10 lane Port Mann Bridge - $3 billion, and the rapid transit Canada Line -$1.9 billion. I used the Canada Line daily during the Olympics, it is excellent: fast (50mph, no traffic lights), grade separated. I have never understood the naive mindset of surface street "rapid transit", that is simply an oxymoron. We need to start building some effective public transportation like they have in Vancouver, and stop playing the us versus them game.

    BTW: I heard some Canuks in Van talking about how great it would be to do a tunnel under their downtown like we are building in Seattle.
  • Ann
    A surface/transit option for a replacement would "work." However, the world-class waterfront that I think almost everyone can agree they want would not become a reality. 45,000 to 50,000 cars on the waterfront does not make for a nice waterfront.
  • Matt_the_Engineer
    Then you won't like the tunnel option either. Adding a toll to the tunnel (which must have a toll, without serious additional funding) will put around 40,000 cars on the street - cars that would rather not pay the toll.

    The problem with the surface/transit option that WSDOT studied is that they tried to move close to the same number of cars. I say allow design for fewer cars, add lane-separated transit, and let traffic happen. People will soon find better ways to get around than driving.
  • morning fizzy
    From a June 2000 report on buying new trolleys in Vancouver:

    The round trip times of the average trolley bus has been lengthening by 2% per annum over the last 10 years due primarily to increased traffic congestion. This means that a bus on the #3 trolley route which takes 104 minutes on its round trip in 2000 is estimated to take 116 minutes in 2005 if bus priority measures are not provided on Main Street.

    Dan how have travel times done in the last 10 years?
  • Paul
    One problem I do feel that is not looked at in regard to taking down the Dunsmuir and Georgia Viaducts. Is all that traffic would most likely end up on Hasting and Pender as it goes through chinatown and the downtown east side.

    That would cause a major problem for buses on alot of north south routes that go along there as they come and go towards the downtown core.

    Vancouver needs to build a skytrain line of some sort along hastings before it even thinks of shutting down the viaducts. That way all the north south bus routes would not have to enter downtown and could just end at hastings before turning around and heading the other way.

    I say this as someone who as lived my entire life in east Vancouver and rides transit daily.
  • David Sucher
    Dan,

    No doubt there are many things to learn from Vancouver. I agree.

    But your statement that there is a "detailed plan" to handle all issues to tear down the viaduct is an overstatement, maybe more like absurd delusion. ("Even though the city’s transportation consultant provided a detailed plan for how it would work...")

    You can't just go around telling people that all the answers are solved. You are a smart guy but such overstatement is preposterous. Please don't believe your own press. You might consider the old saw "promise less and deliver more."
  • Mickymse
    You're being a little absurd yourself, aren't you David? If Dan's assertion about the surface plan is an overstatement, then one has to make the same exact assertion for the transportation departments' plans for accommodating traffic during the construction period and for use of the tunnel as well...
  • David Sucher
    Yes. Mickymse. It's true and Iagree with you.

    "...one has to make the same exact assertion for the transportation departments' plans for accommodating traffic during the construction period and for use of the tunnel as well..."

    I think the tunnel would be a huge mistake and I am glad that so many people like Dan see it the same way that I do.

    Promise less, deliver more.
  • Yes, but 71 percent drive to work:

    http://www.bcbusinessonline.ca/gr/features/2009...
  • Jason_Mitchell
    Good post, Dan. The auto-centric have used the pending paralysis argument to strike fear in the hearts of otherwise reasonable folk for decades. Yet from New York to San Francisco to Portland the apocalyptic gridlock promised as punishment for not building or rebuilding a highway never materializes.
  • morning fizzy
    And the horse-centric before them.
  • Sparky
    I miss the horses. The world really sped up too much after them.
  • gloomy gus
    It's worth noting that the kickstart to Vancouver's experiment was the "pending paralysis" argument as well.
  • litlnemo
    The SkyTrains were running on the Expo/Millennium lines every 108 seconds during the Games. Think about it -- every 108 seconds. (And they were all full, at least when I was there to see it.) There was very little "time penalty" for taking transit as long as you were somewhere near a station to begin with. It was great.
  • misha
    Vancouver already has 364,000 people riding their light rail on an average day (in 2009, before the Olympics).

    Our regional Link Light Rail has 16,200 daily riders. Not even the same order of magnitude as Vancouver, Portland, or San Francisco.

    We need to build a LOT more light rail, fast. ST2 isn't nearly enough.
  • Anc
    You are comparing a 24 year old, 43 mile system, with a 7 month old 14 mile, partially built line.

    I agree that ST3 needs to include Link expansion, but comparing the two systems is a bit apples to oranges IMO.
  • The passenger loads on Vancouver transit vehicles during the Olympics were a short-term wonderful thing, but non-sustainable for more than a short period. See the pictures of the crowded transit conditions posted by the transit agency at http://ow.ly/16CWDF.

    The real lesson for urban observers will be the transit market share that emerges from the Olympic period. Some regional residents -- Olympic volunteers for example -- rode transit daily during Feb 12-28 for the first time with the free pass provided, and found it more tolerable than they expected.
  • Anc
    Okay, maybe I am overthinking this, but in reference to the graph how in the hell are inbound and outbound trips not the same?!?!? I mean, I can see how in the short term it could be the case that more leave than enter or vice versa but over the span of years? WTF?
  • Matt_the_Engineer
    Very long term parking?
  • Anc
    LOL, that has to be some serious long term parking.

    I have to be reading the graph wrong, b/c the way my mind is processing it, about 3K more cars came into downtown Vancouver A DAY than left it..... FOR FIVE YEARS (95-99). That is 5,475,000 cars sitting in long term parking. That can't be right.
  • Matt_the_Engineer
    Maybe you've just exposed a massive fencing ring? Do we have statistics for the number of car parts leaving the city?
  • giffy
    You could shut down all the streets and reduce auto traffic to zero! Nothing you have said establishes that this was not an inconvenience or was at all desirable. And really over any two week period people can handle such things. The more important test is over longer time frames.

    What Vancouver is doing, not what the mayor proposed in an offhand remark, is to maintain current capacity while building more and more transit. You know, what we are doing. We will be using cars for a long long time. Hopefully they will be fueled by things other than gasoline before too long, but they are not going anywhere in my lifetime.

    The CRC by the way is a big old mess mostly due to the other Vancouver.
  • TJ
    Apples and oranges.
    Look at the Georgia/Dunsmuir viaduct. Look where it starts and where it ends (and really, the two are halves of a full set, not two seperate roadways). It's very different in function than the Alaska Way Viaduct, which runs through the length of downtown Seattle.
    The AWV is an alternate to I-5. The Georgia/Dunsmuir viaduct is simply a way to get over a small piece of land. In that sense, it's more similar to the viaduct that was torn down in Milwaukee than to the AWV.
  • Mickymse
    The AWV is NOT an alternative to I-5. Close to half of the traffic on it is going to/from in-city neighborhoods and Downtown. And it's only a "highway" for a handful of miles between the West Seattle Bridge and Greenlake.

    There's simply no logical reason why it can't be replaced with a surface option.
  • Reductionist architecture is probably the best for this region.

    I would definitely remove the Viaduct and also the 520 bridge.

    Note also that Vancouver ran a fleet of fuel cell powered Hydrogen buses, and extended their share of the Hydrogen Highway up there.
  • Apples and oranges, but it wouldn't work here anyway as a normal course of business--the pro-car people would go berserk and fight it in court.

    Would the London thing where they make you pay tolls to drive into the inner city be relevant perhaps?
  • Anc
    At some point yes, congestion pricing for downtown will be a good idea, but only when we have the infrastructure in place to handle it. Once Link is built out, Rapid Ride is online, and the Seattle Streetcar Network up and running it might be time to think about congestion pricing.
  • Mickymse
    For comparison's sake, there's not much to build out here in Seattle...

    Like Vancouver, we have passenger ferries and float planes, a small commuter rail line, and rapid transit.

    They just happen to have three lines and more mileage for SkyTrain, although several miles of that (including to the airport) just opened last summer in time for the Olympics.

    They are also constrained traffic-wise by waterways and bridges -- and they DON'T have a freeway ripping through their Downtown.
  • Worth noting that there were plans to bring the Trans-Canadian Highway through downtown VAN until they were stopped by neighborhood/environmental activism in the 70's/80's. Instead they decided to keep Strathcona and Chinatown. Crazy, huh?
  • pl
    Comparing Vancouver during the Olympics with Seattle during a normal work day doesn't computer.

    Did you go up to Vancouver for the Olympics, Dan? I did. People were using mass transit to get to and from Olympic events, not to conduct business. Almost everyone in Vancouver had the entire 2 weeks off!

    I'm not saying that taking down the viaduct is a bad thing--it's a good thing. But it should be replaced by something that makes it just as easy if not easier for people to conduct business in Seattle. Without business, we don't have jobs, and we don't have a viable city.
  • Cow
    Huh. So, the fact that I (who live and work in Vancouver) and *everyone else I know* still went to work every day must have been a fiction? They did encourage some telecommuting, but most of us weren't so lucky; also, all the shops, restaurants, etc. in the downtown core were still open, and staffed by actual people.

    That said, that question misses the entire point: Vancouver has reduced car traffic over the last decade, not just during the Olympics. Getting the viaducts down is just something of a dream.
  • JK
    That's nice that you've visited Vancouver, but did you live there during the Olympics? Business absolutely didn't stop and definitely didn't have 2 weeks off. People in our office biked to work, others kept their same transit path with no problem. Your argument doesn't hold. Doing business doesn't have to equal lots of cars. If people get used to using transit and there's a good system in place, traveling to the city (and within the city) can be extremely effective and dare I say easy.

    p.s. How do you know if people on the mass transit were going to olympic events or going to work?
  • pl
    Good point--but I think the sticker is that we need to have a good system in place. I agree that Vancouver's system was very easy!

    On all of the mass transit I rode, 95% of the people were wearing Olympic-related gear, so that's how I "knew." But there may have been a Olympics dress code during the games--hockey sweaters = business casual? :)
  • pl
    whoops, mean "doesn't compute..."
  • morning fizzy
    I really liked doesn't computer - wished it had been on purpose.
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