Who's to Blame for ORCA Malfunctions?

By Erica C. Barnett, Thursday, August 13, 2009 at 4:28 PM
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orca_card

Anecdotal evidence: About half the time, when I board Link light rail or a Metro bus using my ORCA pass (a regional pass that works with seven different transit agencies), the reader either: a) Malfunctions (giving a message like "please try again", or b) Isn’t working at all (on buses, this is usually accompanied by a an eye-roll from the driver, who says something like, "They don’t work when it rains, you know.")

I ride transit a lot, so it’s possible this is just a weird me-specific anomaly; however, it’s clearly not just that I have a bad card, because a lot of the time the reader isn’t working for anyone . (To use an ORCA card, you load it with money or buy a monthly pass and tap it on a special reader inside Metro buses and at all light rail stops.)

I called both Sound Transit and Metro to find out if they’re hearing similar complaints from other users.

Metro spokeswoman Rochelle Ogershock said, pretty unequivocally, that she hasn’t heard of any problems with the readers or the cards. She chalked the problems up to operator (train/bus driver) or user (me and you) error: "A lot of it is a learning curve—we’ve seen issues related to people not being familiar with how to use it and drivers getting accustomed to what their role is. Whenever you’re phasing in something as complicated as the ORCA card, there’s going to be issues with getting used to how it works." She added: "I haven’t heard of anything systemic."

Sound Transit spokeswoman Linda Robson said she hadn’t heard of any systemic issues either, but acknowledged that "we have seen some spotty problems with the readers" on Metro buses. She attributed most of the problems with card readers to driver error ("There’s actually quite a bit that the drivers have to do to interact with the card reader" to make sure it’s working, Robson said) and said that drivers are getting additional training on how to properly set the machines. And, she said, it’s possible some machines are just buggy. "Every once in a while, you’re going to have one particular card reader that is going to be on the fritz."

Is my experience an unusual one? Or are ORCA machines acting up across the regional transit system? If you have experiences—positive or negative—with ORCA, feel free to leave them in the comments. (And call 1-888-988-6722 if you need help with your ORCA card.)

  • Justin Case
    I had a number of problems initially, but I feel like it has been working more consistently now. I do get the try again message sometimes, but I believe that's user error (pulling my wallet away too fast, angled wrong, etc). Otherwise the out of service message has been happening pretty seldom of late. Also I found that by doing two short swipes, a long, and then two more short real quick, it will automatically add $40 to my account. Just kidding. Actually I finally set up the auto-recharge option and that has been very helpful, it never gets too low and then gives me errors when my manual recharge has not processed still after 2-3 days.
  • Mark,

    Both of my bus driver friends have told me
    that it is almost entirely because of the
    drivers. It’s a training issue they said.

    Horse manure. You were told no such thing.
  • Asa,

    Plus, drivers love it when you put your ass up against the reader so it reads it through your back pocket

    Actually that is kind of fun.
  • Alice,

    partially subsidized by my getting charged an extra quarter when the driver forgets to switch to off-peak to peak

    If the driver forgets to switch from off-peak to peak then you are being charged a quarter LESS.
  • Brian,

    the bus drivers don’t seem to be so concerned about fixing the problem

    Probably because bus drivers aren't software engineers and have passengers to get to their destinations. Again - the only way to fix the "Out of Service" problem is often to completely reboot all electronics on the bus - which involves parking the bus, going outside and disconnecting the battery for 20 seconds. Then waiting for systems to come back online (there is no "reset" button inside the bus). Often this doesn't work either, but sometimes it does.

    We have been instructed to accept ORCA cards as "flash passes" (i.e. just show it to the driver) when the system is offline. Naturally this does not debit your e-purse, but it does keep things moving.
  • abc,

    Why would the drivers have to do anything to make an automatic system work?

    Bingo.
  • Mickeymse,

    I tend to chalk it up to poor driver training

    Nonsense. Drivers receive 3 hours of training on ORCA, and the system has been in service for several months now. There is no driver option other than setting the zone and trip that would affect ORCA operation.

    Often the system will spontaneously disconnect, creating the "Out of Service" message. The only way to correct this is to completely shut off the bus - by pulling over, going outside the bus, and shutting off the battery switch for 20 seconds. There is no "reset" switch INSIDE the bus. This means waiting for a layover.

    Also, the ORCA system synchronizes with the master database only while parked at one of the 7 bases where it can communicate with the database. If a glitch occurs in the field - or a passenger boards after just having loaded money onto their card and the on-board system hasn't had a chance to return to base to retrieve that information from the master database - errors occur.

    NONE of this is the fault of drivers. ALL of it is the fault of piss-poor design.
  • Rochelle Ogershock is blaming DRIVERS? What a complete crock. I'm a Metro driver, and it isn't POSSIBLE to misconfigure ORCA (the only operator options once logged on to the radio are setting the zone or trip, not whether the reader is functioning or "out of service". Also the "Try Again" message is often rectified by the passenger tapping the card correctly - flat against the black pad on the lower part of the reader.
  • Dave F
    Yes! I loaded my orca card a week before I needed to use it, (I just moved from DC back to Seattle, and ordered the card in advance to get ready. It's been 7 days, and it still says the payment is 'pending' on the Orca website. I tried to use my card once I arrived, was upset to see that the card reader said I had zero funds remaining, and added funds again from the ticket vending machine.
  • BobVB
    Yes, I think part of the problem is the 'tap' nomenclature and the pictures that show putting it on the reader at an angle.

    I was having problems while holding the card but since putting it in my wallet along the outside wall and just holding my whole wallet against the Orcaâ„¢ symbol until I hear the 'beep' I have yet to have it not read. Before I could lay it totally flat I was it didn't read about 25% of the time, now it always reads (and I don't have to worry about taking in and out of my wallet!)
  • it works fine
    @ 15 and 19, you are right on. I find "tap on-tap off" a bit of a misnomer. Initially I had trouble "swiping" the card in front of the reader. You have to hold it against the reader for a second.

    Since I started doing that, it works every time. What bugs me is drivers don't seem to know to tell people that.
  • The Dude
    Are there some bad cards out there?
  • CCSea
    My issue is that the Orca system overcharges.

    I live in Montlake and often take one-zone trips on buses whose Orca readers are configured for two-zone charges.

    If I ask the driver to let me pay for a one-zone trip (since I get off the bus before it crosses the lake), it takes them 6 or 7 button presses on their control system. People behind me get impatient, and some of the drivers have let me know that this is not welcome. In several cases I've just paid the extra $$ instead of going through the hassle.

    None of the GPS-enabled fixes that are proposed for 2010 will solve this problem.
  • dacoach
    sure, the technology was purchased, but implementation and management is metro's and, well, let's just they've never been a technology literate bunch. have you seen their website? trip planner? really?
  • Chris Stefan
    I'm having about the same experience as Erica. Roughly 50% of the time the reader doesn't work.

    The 66 seems to be especially bad for some reason. I've rarely had the readers work on that route.

    I've never had a problem with the readers for Link but then I only ride once a week or so.

    I know my "technique" isn't the problem, I've used RFID cards before and I know you have to place and hold until you hear the beep.

    I don't think it is all "training" either, the readers themselves seem to be a bit on the buggy side.
  • Rose
    I've had an error with my card once or twice, and at least twice the machine has been out of order. But that was all when I first got my card, back in June. I use it 2-4 times a week, and haven't had a problem in the last month or more.
  • Kevin
    I have an Orca pass. I've noticed a big improvement over the past few weeks in bus drivers adjusting the rates - prior to that it wasn't unusual to be getting off the bus and still having it read "Ride Free Area." I would say I hit a reader that's not functioning correctly about 10% of the time. I get a "Try Again" message about 20% of the time the reader is working - a second bump usually is all it takes to get it to read.
  • Mark
    I've noticed maybe 30% of the time i get
    a free ride because the Orca reader is not
    working.
    Both of my bus driver friends have told me
    that it is almost entirely because of the
    drivers. It's a training issue they said.

    When the reader is working it reads without
    taking it out of my wallet every time.
    I haven't tried the back pocket bump,
    but i'm going to!
  • Good Grief
    What I have noticed is that if I try to use it when I am too lazy to take it out of my pocket or wallet, the failure rate goes way up --- tt will work some times and not others. Also, the ntion of a "tap" is perhaps a misnomer -- my experience is that you need to hold the card over the reader for about half a beat for it to properly register. When I do that I have never had a problem.
  • Alice
    @22: I suspect that your free rides are being partially subsidized by my getting charged an extra quarter when the driver forgets to switch to off-peak to peak. I haven't had time to complain about it because I've always been in a herd of people when it happens. It's nice to not have to carry cash or tickets, but it's happening often enough that I'm thinking of switching back to tickets.

    It also seems rather stupid to not automate something that happens over the entire system rather than relying on drivers who should be focusing on, y'know, driving rather than managing a system that should be as fuss-free as possible.
  • Milo
    I've never had a problem with my Orca card. Works every time.
  • joshuadf
    My experience has been the same as Oran (well, I have a UPASS but my wife uses the Orca). When it first came our 4yr old tap really had fun using the card, but it rarely worked so she got tired of it. It really should be simple enough for a child, too bad it takes "technique."
  • Is my experience an unusual one?


    In short: no.

    I've seen readers failing to work many times. I know riders who decide to go e-purse instead of buying a monthly because they've observed that the fail rate is so high it ends up being a better deal over a month (due to the number of free rides because of readers that aren't reading).

    In addition it takes far too long to process online purchases. What's all this about having to wait 24 hours? I had to even wait 4 days this week due to a glitch caused by a software upgrade I was told.

    Metro spokeswoman Rochelle Ogershock said, pretty unequivocally, that she hasn’t heard of any problems with the readers or the cards.


    That's either a lie or she's living under a rock.
  • brie
    I took light rail for the first time today, and was very excited about using my new Orca card. But all I got was frustration at Westlake. Several times I received "Please try again," and so did my partner, who's been using hers just fine on the bus for weeks. At a different sensor, I got the message that I didn't have enough money on the card, which was a lie -- my partner's worked on that one. Got to Tukwila Int'l station and the card worked fine - no claim that it was underfunded. Left me confused and cranky! And I assume, in the end, that I paid for the train south but not the one north.

    I suspect Sound Transit and Metro are both losing a fair amount of money from people who aren't paying because the readers aren't working. It's not like a monthly pass, where you've already paid a set fee. If the machine is supposed to deduct the fare each time you use the card, and the reader isn't working -- free ride for you, and no money for the already-strapped transit system.
  • I only ride light rail, but I haven't had a single problem. Indeed, it's a huge improvement to have an RFID card like the Orca...
  • abc
    "An Australian company did that went under."

    Huh?

    It's not the fault of the buyers of the system when they buy a bad system from a company that's not solvent.
    Okay.
  • Transit Guy
    Don't SWIPE your card!!

    Lay it flat against the Orca symbol on the bottom part of the reader, and in a split second you should get your confirming Beep.

    I tried waving and swiping the card over the readers at first and got lots of error messages. Ever since I started laying it flat on the reader, 100% correct reads.

    For bus riders, yes, you have to look at the reader screen to make sure it's properly set, or you'll be charged the wrong fare. The drivers have to press several buttons, in the right sequence, every time the bus crosses a zone line or goes into/out of the Free Ride Zone -- about as complicated as you could make it. Sometimes they don't bother. One Metro driver told me he resets only when asked by a rider!!
  • Brian Macster
    dacoach...

    Sound Transit, Metro Transit or any other agency did not design or make this system. An Australian company did that went under.

    Don't go bashing people you don't have any facts on.

    Anywho - How do you report broken/damaged readers? There are a few at the Puyallup Sounder Station that aren't working/damaged
  • Oh and the issue with drivers forgetting to switch or correctly set zones will be fixed once Metro's new radio system with GPS starts going online in March 2010 with most buses having it within a year from that. (Metro In Transit Newsletter, July/August 2009, pg.8) Click my name to read it.
  • Asa
    I should say that I really like the card in general, it's much more convenient than having to worry about having cash/change, and way more affordable than buying a pass since I don't ride quite enough to make that worthwhile. I have it set to reload automatically, it's pretty great.

    Plus, drivers love it when you put your ass up against the reader so it reads it through your back pocket.
  • Oran
    My ORCA experience has been working well most of the time. When I first started using it I got a lot of "Please Try Again" messages but I realized that card tapping technique matters. If you remove the card too soon, it will ask you to try again.

    So try this: place the card on the bottom half of the reader, where the ORCA logo is, hold it there until you hear a beep, and then remove the card.

    Also, if you get the error you don't need to wait for the error screen or sound to clear to try again.
  • dacoach
    it isn't rocket science. the people that developed this are the same people who squandered millions of dollars on the county's IT budget system. they're are idiots. it's not user error; it's talentless idiots who couldn't get a job in IT any place else.
  • Asa
    I've been using it on the bus since the first week it was available, it's been rare that it hasn't worked. I'd say less than 10 times, and I ride the bus at least once most days.

    When it hasn't worked, it's usually the "Please Try Again" error, but trying again doesn't do anything and the driver just waves me on. Occasionally the reader has been down completely.

    It seems to have gotten more reliable as time has gone on.
  • Jay
    I use Orca for a daily bus commute and it has worked 99% percent of the time. Only once or twice has the driver alerted me that their machine was down.

    One interesting note is that there is Orca reader for the streetcar. The operator said just to show your Orca card to an inspector if asked.
  • Brian
    My ORCA card does not work 1/2 the time either, and the bus drivers don't seem to be so concerned about fixing the problem and I end up not paying my fare.
  • Chef Thunder
    I ride three different transit agencies (Metro, Sound Transit and Community Transit) daily and would say it works 95% of the time.
  • Greg
    Mine ORCA card has worked pretty consistently since the first couple of weeks of June, when the system seemed a little buggy. I'm a little amused by the notion of "confused users." All you have to do is tap it against the machine. If you can find the bus stop, tapping the card should be a snap...
  • abc
    Thanks ECB.

    They put a sign up in the ride free zone and very few Orca owners wouldn't know the rules. Peak times are by time and if they forget to switch, the card should still work, albeit with the wrong charge.
  • EvergreenRailfan
    Sometimes they forget to turn it on after leaving Downtown Seattle.

    Now with LINK, mine does work pretty good, but I have had problems, mainly at the Westlake Station, about 1 or 2 of the ones on the west side of the station give me the please try again message.

    Now as for using it on Washington State Ferries, it works too well. It unlocks the turnstile and go through it so fast, I wonder if that's all.
  • ECB
    @5: Because they have to tell the system when it's ride free/off peak/peak/ etc. The system doesn't do that automatically.
  • abc
    Why would the drivers have to do anything to make an automatic system work?
  • Mickymse
    Similar problems in my experience as well... although I tend to chalk it up to poor driver training. I notice no problems on any buses where I see the drivers pause and take the time to switch things at the appropriate times. It's not easy to keep up on and, when added to everything else the drivers have to deal with, I think some are just not taking the care with it because there are still so few users right now.
  • tiodan
    i've mostly been biking for the last few months, but when i have taken the bus, i'd say the cards work about 50% of the time.

    @1 : "Since the bus drivers don’t seem to ever care when my card doesn’t register, I’ve assumed it’s something they are getting used to seeing." i agree with this assessment completely.
  • Dorothy
    Several months back my partner and I were talking with a Metro bus driver, who was working his second job. He noted that the bus drivers were concerned about the coming system and the problems it would bring. He did not think the readers worked well on the tests and had concerns about how to handle situations with confused users.
  • Brady
    My card doesn't seem to register for about 1/2 of my swipes.

    My wallet has other similar cards for work, and they work every time. While I concede that I'm probably a bit groggy on my way to and from the office, I kinda doubt that it's so bad that I somehow am forgetting how to swipe a card when I'm on my commute.

    Since the bus drivers don't seem to ever care when my card doesn't register, I've assumed it's something they are getting used to seeing.
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